The Taliban attacked a NATO trucking terminal in Peshawar early Monday morning, destroying more than 30 vehicles and containers. The attack on a terminal used by NATO forces is the second in two days.
A Taliban force of about 50 to 60 fighters entered the Al Faisal Terminal after midnight, overpowered the guards, and rampaged throughout the terminal for an hour before security forces reached the attack site.
“About 50 gunmen attacked us …. They first disarmed us and then began setting fire to bulldozers and Humvees,” one of the depot’s guards told Reuters. “A police team arrived after about an hour and an exchange of fire took place for an hour.”
More than 30 vehicles, including armored Humvees and construction equipment, were destroyed in the attack.
Today’s early morning attack came on the heels of an identical strike in Peshawar at a different terminal on March 15. An estimated 40 Taliban fighters disarmed the security guards and destroyed more than 20 shipping containers and vehicles in that attack.
After a rash of attacks late last year that resulted in the destruction of more than 450 vehicles and containers, the Pakistani government had claimed it would increase security at the terminals. The 2008 attacks, as well as a Feb. 3, 2009, attack in the Khyber tribal agency that destroyed a vital bridge, have forced the government to shut down the Khyber Pass six times since September 2008.
The government has launched multiple security operations in Peshawar and the neighboring Khyber tribal agency since last summer in an effort to push the Taliban out of the region. While the government claims the threat in Peshawar has been eliminated, the Taliban has stepped up attacks on police outposts and the trucking terminals.
NATO’s most vital resupply route for its forces in Afghanistan stretches from the Pakistani port city of Karachi to Peshawar, then on through the Khyber Pass to Kabul. More than 70 percent of NATO supplies and 40 percent of its fuel moves through Peshawar.
The US military has dismissed the attacks in Peshawar and Khyber as inconsequential, but the growing Taliban insurgency in the Northwest Frontier Province, coupled with the assault on the supply lines, has forced NATO to seek alternative supply routes into Afghanistan. In late January, NATO secured an agreement with Russia to allow supplies to pass through the Central Asian republics. NATO officials have said its members could use Iranian routes to resupply its forces, and the US is also exploring the possibility of establishing routes through Iran.
31 Comments
Is there anything the government of Pakistan IS capable of protecting?
The continued attacks and plundering of U.S. and NATO logistic convoys enroute to Afghanistan is a serious issue for the ISAF, NATO, and U.S. commanders. Acquiring fuel and other classes of supply from Russia and surrounding ‘Stans is a positive step and would offer redundentcy and additional resources necessary for an increase in forces. Using Iran is interesting, but I would be suprised if the Iranians would actually permit their ports and roadspace being used to assist our (U.S. and NATO) military activities in Afghanistan.
As a U.S. Army logistician, I’m familiar with our logistical approach in Iraq; moreover, we have three access points for the flow of logistics: Kuwait in the south, Turkey in the north, and Jordan in the west. The proposed plan of using Pakistan, Russia, Iran, and the ‘Stans fits this mold, but I believe lacks U.S. and NATO direct military involvement (convoy operations and convoy escort and support) to ensure its security, integrity, and actual timely delivery. The political sensitivity for placing U.S. and NATO troops in Pakistan and other regional countries is a serious issue, but the Obama Administration must use its influence and positive energy (most notably Secretary of State Clinton, Secretary of Defense Gates, and U.S. CENTCOM Commander General Petreaus) to set the conditions for required and necessary U.S. Military presence in the security and interoperabillity of logistical nodes and networks and lines of communication.
The seaport of Kurachi is a neccesity because large bulk cargo must be transported via ocean going vessels; furthermore, air transport alone can not accomodate the necessary logistical requirements (and there are not enough aircraft to accomplish the mission). Using a long railway line through Europe and Russia would be the only viable option (I’m ruling out Iran for now), but would require a continuous and constant flow of trains over thousands of miles to sustain operations in Afghanistan (and would be hard pressed to equal the tonage of ocean going vessels that could dock in Kurachi). Contracted trucks would present an even more difficult challenge coming from Europe via Russia and the ‘Stans over thousands of miles of road to Afghanistan. Pilferage would also be a big problem over such a long line of communications.
The logistical situation in Afghanistan is a critical issue for the U.S. and NATO forces and the precarious situatuion with the port of Kurachi and the road network into Afghanistan is hurting the military situation. In my opinion, the U.S. and NATO must have military forces to oversee the logistical operations in Pakistan and the flow of material and sustainment into Afghanistan. The usage of Russia, the ‘Stans, and maybe Iran can only enhance the logistical situation and provide necessary redundency and additional resources to facilitate an increase in forces in Afghanistan in the near future.
Steve Brock
PAKISTAN DOWNS AN AFGHAN INTRUDER
“An Afghan warplane that intruded into a tense border area of Pakistan was shot down on Monday by Pakistani planes, the Defense Ministry announced….
…Most recent were a series of bombing raids last week on the border town of Teri Mangal. Islamabad says more than 90 people were killed in those raids. Afghan planes also bombed another small border village, Angoor Ada in the South Waziristan Tribal Agency. As many as 150 people may have been killed within 10 days in these and other attacks.”
–Hey Bill, if the Afghan Air Force in 87 could bomb Angoor Ada, surely the US can use more than a Reaper once or twice a week to take out the innumerable targets within the FATA and NWFP. Do you believe the US is purposefully holding back, or could there be a genuine lack of actionable intelligence perhaps caused by all of the murders of “alleged” US spies, or might it even been the pure logistics of fuel and a lack of proficient Reaper pilots/planes? I feel like there is a definite reason to the slow pace of these stikes.
Full Article Here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DEFDD123CF932A05750C0A961948260
–Also Bill, I read at ABC News that “pathris” are used to target the stikes and pinpoint them down to a specific room or a specific Toyota Pick-Up. Is there any truth to this? And Bill, have you found more about the Angoor Ada of Sept 3 2008? I know that some people were taken back with TF88, perhaps they have given the fresh intelligence we’ve been acting on since then? I speculate that there must have been a specific reason to use actual ground troops as opposed to a Reaper that time, I get the feeling that maybe the US did get a HVT and that they are beening interogated similar to how we caught Abdul Hadi al Iraqi approx. 6 or so months before we acknowldeged.
The ABC Article Here:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=6289748&page=1
Steve,
Good analysis however the major failure in your analysis is the fact that USG/NATO for some reason are ‘afraid’ to rock the Pakistan boat and as such are prepared to ‘lose’ a nominal amount of supplies.
USG/NATO will loose this war if they do not instigate a breakup of Pakistan into more manageable pieces. I don’t want to even imagine the nightmare we will face by loosing this war.
My way of thinking has been very clear for a very long time and that is we need to break up Pakistan. Pakistan is going to be consigned to the dustbin of history anyway so we should help it get there that bit quicker.
US is welcome to find some other route to supply its forces in Afghanistan. It means less trouble for Pakistanis.
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post From the Front: 03/17/2009 News and Personal dispatches from the front and the home front.
KnightHawk
Is there anything the government of Pakistan IS capable of protecting?
The Taliban?
Bard207 wins the prize! 😉
The latest (3/17/09) post in ORBAT.COM gives us the background. Something big is about to happen in Pakistan, and it looks like its collapse will be self-induced. There will be a point at which the NWFP al Qaeda camps and Taliban will be attacked from both west and east. Hint, the attackers will not be Paks.
Addressing other blogs writers work on LWJ is not my usual (or accepted) MO, but just this once because its Ravi and there is a tie-in…
And here I was considering a pasta dinner.
===
“…American colonialists stomping around…”
-America does not create or keep colonies and never really did.
“The war in Afghanistan has spread to Pakistan…”
The current war in Afghanistan started in the ISI offices of Pakistan. The Taliban of the late 1990’s spawned out of Pakistans FATA with ISI training and equipment and Saudi funding.
Does Ravi really think the Pakistani Army is going to fold up like a cheap suit in the face of invading Indian Army? I would think it more likely that the Pakistani Army would forcibly retake control of the nation (they may do this again anyway), absorb the Talib into its force structure (we’re seeing some signs of this already) and burn them up in individual and mass wave suicide attacks against any Indian spearheads that actually do cross the border.
===
Bill – DJ, sorry about that. If it hadn’t been for the relevent tie-ins I’d have registered for Ravi’s quiet little forum and posted it there instead.
Maybe I should…
CALL
OF
DUTY,
R
Steve,
Your view of Kurachi as being a must have, is spot on. Without this port there is no real way to supply our forces the larger bulk shipments they need. How we get control of the supply route is not an option unless we retreat. I hope no one in our government is considering retreat as a option.
We not only need to open the Khyber pass but also the southern route into Kandahar and get control of Quetta so we do not have the same issues as we do in Peshawar. We must control Western Pakistans main supply routes into Afghanistan. Not an easy task but it is a must! With or without Pakistan support.
Bare minumums.
===
10th Mountain Division, 82 ABN Division, and 75th Ranger Regiment to take and hold Khyber Pass and the area around its entrances, including Peshawar.
1st and 2nd Marine Divisions to take and hold Karachi, city and port. The 3rd Marine Division if (and when) it can be raised in time.
101st ABN Division and 173rd ABN Brigade to take and hold Khojak Pass.
The old First Team (1st Arm, 1st Mech, and 1st ArmCav Divisions) to clear both of the routes between Karachi-Quetta and Karachi-Islamabad.
2nd, 3rd, and 4th Mech Divisions, 25th Inf Division, 170th Mech Brigade, 2nd (Stryker) Cav Regiment, 3rd ARM Cav Regiment, and 11th ARM Cav Regiment to hold those routes open and protect convoys.
Indian liason officers with every unit to prevent friendly fire incidents with oncoming Indian units from the East, especially in the Rann of Kutch and Punjab regions.
Four or five Carrier Battle Groups off the Pakistani coast.
Expect casualties.
===
That’s pretty much everything in the box and it still might not be enough (or in time), even with Indian help.
Think it over.
POST
WAR
DREAM,
R
Bangash Khan: “US is welcome to find some other route to supply its forces in Afghanistan. It means less trouble for Pakistanis.”
But where? They can’t be serious on supplying the forces through Russia. Russia and it’s somewhat special dominions in Central Asia!
Than the Russians wouldn’t only have the “oil-weapon”, they’d also have the “supply-weapon”.
That’s nothing the USA or the NATO can want.
Nato’s got money. Let Taliban waste their resource in burning a fraction of it..
Peshawar and Quetta need to be secured, nonetheless Karachi.
wyguy,
I am not sending anyone to the dustbin of history. The people of Pakistan don’t seem to need anyones assistance in getting into the dustbin and seem quite capable of doing it themselves.
I personally don’t have a problem with the Taliban or anyone else as long as they confine their actions to their own land. How they treat their own people is upto them.
What I object to is having to modify my actions because the Govenment of Pakistan is not capable of controlling its own people and my government and by extension all of us here in the west who seem to go along with this.
As the recent events in Mumbai proved, GoP is culpable in these teams going out. I am willing to bet that right now some fundo some were in the Paki badlands is trying to replicate Mumbai except with London/New York/Hamburg etc. as the target.
I want the problem fixed before I get a chance to witness a mushroom cloud over my home city. The problem can only be fixed by breaking Pakistan into smaller run units and then getting the settled area’s of present day Pakistan to ‘Police’ the badlands. Which believe it or not is the historical norm.
A Pakistani:
I’m aware of that, the entire comment was sarcasm.
However, those three divisions would be quite sufficient for reducing the organized resistance of the regular Pakistani Army to dust in the initial phase of the operation. It’s what happens afterward, with the unorganized resistance, that is the real issue (see Iraq).
Don’t for a second think that there isn’t a similar plan in existence should the Pakistani government and military fail to defeat the Taliban that they created.
AN
AMERICAN,
R
A Pakistani,
I am not interested in whether India becomes a hegemon after Pakistan disappears or not. Personally Indians & the Government of India don’t allow thier land to be used to train people who want to walk into my home city and kill me and my fellow citizens.
The point is that Pakistani’s & by extension the GoP do/allow exactly that and you are telling me that I shouldn’t be worried.
I can point to x number of statements from my Home Secretary & PM that states that all multiple terror acts against my home city/country are being planned in Pakistan & by Pakistani’s. Now please tell me what I am supposed to do?
I have been arguing for a very long time that Pakistan needs to put its own house in order and I see no evidence of that. Infact I see the exact opposite.
I see the people & the Government of Pakistan protecting absolute barbarians like the LeT/JeM and other similar motivated outfits and you are telling me I shouldn’t be worried.
If the world does not break up Pakistan by using the existing faultlines then we will all pay a very high price for our behaviour.
I personally wouldn’t get your hopes up about getting the CJ re-appointed. TTP are going to be knocking at the doors of Islamabad / Lahore etc. very soon. Pakistani’s have things slide too far for the situation to be reversed in my view at best you can hope for is too slow the drive but the destination is not in doubt.
Raj Kumar said “If the world does not break up Pakistan by using the existing faultlines then we will all pay a very high price for our behaviour.”
We are paying a high price now. See global economic crisis, Mumbai attacks, BDS, etc.
Raj Kumar
If the world does not break up Pakistan by using the existing faultlines then we will all pay a very high price for our behaviour.
I don’t see the outside world as being interested in doing that. Muslim majority countires are unlikely to be participatns and the Continental European countries sre reluctant to get involved in acitve combat in Afghanistan, much less rearranging Pakistan into several smaller entities.
China?
Can’t imagine them being interested.
Russia?
They were active in that part of the world 3 decades ago and can’t imgaine them wanting to try again.
USA
I sense no interest at all for doing something like that. If there would be another catastrophic event similar to 9-11 with a trail leading back to Pakistan, then there would probably be something different in mind than rearranging the various sections of Pakistan.
India?
The USA keeps jawboning India to prevent them from attacking Pakistan. It happened after the Parliament attacks in 2001 and it probably happened again after the recent Mumbai attacks.
The 1971 War (Bangladesh) was messy and there wasn’t a nuclear scenario possible at the time.
It takes quite a bit of prodding to get Pakistan to take military action against the militants. An announcement by the outside world that Pakistan is going to be broken up for its own good would not go over very well. I realize that the various sections of Pakistan (except the Punjab) would like to be treated better than they are, but have never read anything suggesting that they would be interested in being separated by outside forces.
A Pakistani
Raj Kumar; the only purpose breaking up Pakistan into smaller units would serve, would be to make India the undisputed hegemon of South Asia. A “broken up” Pakistan would have less interest in “policing” the tribal areas. That would mean an outside force would have to do the job in these tribal lands. How is that outside force faring against 15 million tribals in Afghanistan?
BTW aside from Swat, none of the other areas that have tali-boys running wild were ever integrated administratively into Pakistan. That was the price for accession and it worked fine until Bushie forced Mushie to kick that hornets nest.
If Pakistan would have actually made a serious attempt to copntrol the Taliban on their side of the border, things could be much different in Afghanistan because the rear base that the militants now enjoy in Pakistan would not be available.
I thought that Pakistan allowed their border area with Afghanistan to be rather porous in Fall 2001 and let too many Pakistanis cross into Afghanistan to fight.
In hindsight, Bush and the US military should have left the stranded Pakistanis in Kunduz in 2001 instead of allowing them to be airlifted out. At least Pakistan would have a reason to be unhappy with the U.S. A huge favor was done for Pakistan and yet we have a constant stream of criticism of the U.S. saying that it is taking advantage of Pakistan.
On a naming basis, it can be argued that the Taliban are distinct from LeT and other militants based outside of the FATA and NWFP. Every other type of evaluation would conclude that they are all serious threats to the country (Pakistan) and Pakistan has made token efforts in subduing & controlling them. Suggesting that things would get worse in a dismantled Pakistan scenario are interesting since the Peace Deals that Pakistan has been doing haven’t worked.
I realize there is a desire by some Pakistanis to have the Taliban in control of Afghanistan to act as Strategic Depth. Also, to use militants like LeT to needle and antagonize India on the Eastern Border. It is quite possible that the Taliban have bigger plans than to be relegated to FATA and NWFP. Increased linkage between the Taliban and LeT would not be favorable for the continued existence of Pakistan as a country.
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Dustbin…lol….yes, sure, after we just forced our chief justice back into power. And managed a climbdown from our “beloved” president.
We?
It took outside intervention to get Musharraf (Military Dictator) to allow Benazir Bhutto, Zardari and Nawaz Sharif (Saudi Arabia) to come back to Pakistan. Without that outside push — effort, Musharraf (Military Dictator) might still be possibly in power.
We?
There was again outisde jawboning to get Zardari to allow the Chief Justice to come back. Also, the Pakistani Army was very reluctant to fire on their own people, but General Kiyani had to be prompted by the U.S. to tell Zardari No to using the military against Pakistani citizens on the streets.
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Your country has serious problems and many from other countries feel that Pakistan will fracture of its own accord without outside intervention being used.
I know that pride & patriotism make it hard for you and other Pakistanis to admit it.
Could part of the problem be the unbalanced act?
Tactically speaking the Tamil Tigers have what they want, India has been busy if not publically with this in the area for quite some time. They choose to acquire from us by any means, power. I believe I saw that thought countered, at least once. Another issue could be money. Money for one country, security for another, maybe you’ve thru no fault of your own of course, lost that proverbial backdoor. Have any of you ever played extreme chess, and found yourself in an unseen checkmate?
Landlocked is a bad word, I’d rather hear the worst swearing in the world than landlocked. Tactically proficient?
Ft. Huachuca and you?
A Pakistani,
I definitely agree that Pakistan needs education reform. It also needs to reduce tension with India so the military budget can be pruned some and the funds used in criticcal places like education & infrastructure such as electricital generation plants.
By raising the education level of the population, it will enable the country as a whole to keep pace with the rest of the world. The education curiculum offered in the madrassahs does not do that. The world will continue to progress with or without Pakistan.
Yes, the need for free meals to students exists and I would guess that is the primary alllure of the madrassahs rather than getting a strict and rejectionist religious eduation.
Even though we agree on what needs to be done in Pakistan, there are a few obstacles in the way.
1. The Pakistan Army has had considerable control & power over the years and would be reluctant to cede some of its budget to education & infrastructure. I realize that India is seen as an eternal enemy to Pakistan, but a war between both countries would serve no longterm purpose — objective. India would be unable to defeat & exert control over Pakistan. Pakistan would be unable to defeat and exert control over India. Yet, both countries spend considerable funds and emotional energy readying for a war.
2. The economic — politcal power situation in Pakistan needs to have some significant reform. Army Generals, Benazir Bhutto, Zardari and Nawaz Sharif are the main names that I can think of in recent years that have ruled Pakistan. I realize that Mr Gilani is exhibits some separation from Zardai rather than being a Rubber Stamp. The idea that the PPP is the personal property of the Bhutto family is pathetic.
Nawaz Sharif has his own faults which are also known.
So yes, things need to be changed on the ground (civilian society) in Pakistan, but Pakistan needs a credible leader that really cares about the country rather than themselves so that outside countries — organizations can get the funds — aid were it is truly needed.
Recycling Bhutto family members, Army generals and Nawaz Sharif as the leadership of Pakistan has been a failure. Recognizing that paricular problem is easy, but coming up with a fix is going to be difficult.
Seeing the comments of “A Pakistani” makes an Indian like me see the utter failure of the concept of Pakistan as a nation state – the Partition will go down as the worst possible thing to have happened to the Indian sub continent.
Indian Muslims living in what we now know as Pakistan DEMANDED that they have their own country so their interests could be protected from the “evil Hindus”… unfortunately, they needed protection most of all from themselves than any other enemies real or perceived.
Listening to A Pakistani’s laundry list of complaints would make you think that only Pakistanis face these problems – Indians face problems that are a 100 times worse – soul crushing poverty and lack of food, education etc exist in large parts of India even today for all the advances it has made – How ever poor Indians dont resort to terrorism the way Pakistanis do. They are’nt going around planting terror from Madrid to Mumbai to London. Pakistani’s do. Why is this ??
There are poor people all over the world from Latin America to sub Saharan Africa – they are not exactly terrorist nation states using Islamic terrorism to threaten regional stability like Pakistan does. Why is this ??
Also “A Pakistani”, expects America/the world to help with efforts to improve education etc.. conveniently forgetting what massive influence the military has in the life of civilians – ably supported by the civilians themselves. Or the feudalistic rivalry between the Punjabis and the Sindhis that has been going on for the last 4 decades if not more.
Now, why is it that the Pakistani nation state not able to provide fundamental services for its own citizens ?? that they go begging the US/West to help them out? After all, isnt this why “Pakistan” was putatively created for ?? So that the interests of Indian Muslims (who refused to deal with the fact that they were Indians) could be “protected” ?
It is no wonder Jinnah died a few years after 1947 – he realized the terrible mistake that he helped create – Pakistan.
Just like in 1947, India will have to bear the brunt of damages caused by Pakistan. All the lawyers in the world cannot stop the inevitable collapse of Pakistan.
The US will leave as soon as it discovers that it cannot do much to change the fundamental nature of its failed ally and it is only going to waste American blood and treasure trying to do so. The Cubs will win the World Series before Pakistan “reforms” itself.
Ominous times for India. The Taliban is growing stronger and their idealogical ally may become the next PM of Pakistan.
Chaudhry Iftikhar Muhammad
I have seen his name mentioned before for a leadership position, but not sure of his political leaning.
Aitzaz Ahsan,/i>
PPP and Punjabi.
That covers several bases.
Sherry Rehman
PPP and Sindhi
Raza Rabbani
PPP and Pujnjabi
Ali Ahmad Kurd
I am not familiar with him and not much detail about him on the Internet.
Since you named lawyers and Sherry Rehman, my guess is that you are a moderate– liberal PPP member and possibly a lawyer yourself. No mention of Imran Khan, so good for you.
They all are very likely to be better than Asif Zardari, but I have read that Zardari might be having a power struggle with the Bhutto family for control of the PPP. That illustrates the biggest obstacle to propelling new faces to the top of Pakistani leadership. Neither the Bhutto family or Zardari want to give up control to others.
The people that you named represent a break from the Feudal power structure that still has influence in Pakistan.
If you named five PML-N members that would be suitable leadership candidates, I would point out the same problem that Nawaz Sharif isn’t interested in getting out of the way and is an obstacle.
Even when Nawaz Sharif (PML-N) and Benazir Bhutto (PPP) were outside of Pakistan in exile, they still did their best to keep control of their respective political parties.
I have read of various – solutions for Pakistan in that a varying number of people would go into exile so Pakistan could start with a slate of fresh faces instead of recycling the same names at the top. In theory, it sounds great. The difficult part is convincing the chosen that they need to go into exile and don’t interfere for the good of Pakistan.
“The difficult part is convincing the chosen that they need to go into exile and don’t interfere for the good of Pakistan.”
bard207,
Actually the most difficult part is for Pakistanis to get out of their denial mode. The country is in chaos and no, the US is NOT to blame. They have to blame themselves for what has happened and what is happening.
If you watched how the lawyers protested against Musharaff in 2007 and how this directly led to weakening the grip that he had on power, you can take heart that public opinion in Pakistan is still alive.
How many Pakistanis have taken to the streets to protest the “peace” agreements that the Govt has signed with Taliban over Swat ? Contrast this to the number of people who protested Musharaff because they thought that he was America’s lap dog.
The US is a convenient villain for every one to blame – there is a reason why Zardari and Sharif are waging their personal battles – who is going to stop them ?
Civil disobedience is the most potent tool available to a people who believe in a peaceful/non violent struggle against the establishment. The feudal landlords of Punjab, Sindh, the mullahs, the Army ARE ALL part of the establishment.
If Pakistanis are serious about getting their country on the right track, they need to do some soul searching as to why they got here – and importantly why is it that they felt so angry that the Government sacked a Chief Justice , while they have ZERO RESPONSE to a Government that signs “peace” deals with terrorists who seek to impose sharia.
The establishment – Pakistan’s military jihad axis and its feudalism are’nt going away any time soon by “demanding” them to go into “exile”.
I dont see any of this happening any time soon. I will repeat this again – the Cubs might win the World Series before Pakistan is “reformed”.
The US needs to re-calibrate its approach. Instead we see signs of the US Govt attempting to “reach” out to the “moderate” Taliban. Oh, brother.
If ever there was an oxymoron, that would be the “moderate” Taliban.
NS
Denial mode in Pakistan
How many Pakistanis have taken to the streets to protest the “peace” agreements that the Govt has signed with Taliban over Swat ? Contrast this to the number of people who protested Musharaff because they thought that he was America’s lap dog.
There needs to be a motivating — unifying force to organize large protest demonstrations in Pakistan (and probably most countries). Mullahs and others served as organizers for the Musharaff protests.
For organized protests against the agreements in Swat and other troubled areas, there needs to be a group – force large enough and with a enough connections across the country to put it together.
* Mullahs
No
* Lawyers?
Probably too concentrated in large cities and hoping that the problems in the remote areas like Swat and Bajaur will stay there.
* PPP
Their power is shaky at the moment and protesting against the Swat agreement would be too divise.
* PML-N
Nawaz Sharif is partial to some of the militants and
won’t lead a protest.
* PML-Q
Not enough of a factor to matter.
* ANP
They are scared of the militants
* MQM
Strong in Sindh and Swat is too far away from Karachi. They aren’t crazy about the Taliban, but the Taliban are still over the horizon for them.
* Imran Khan
He is in favor of deals with the militants.
* Army
They are relieved that they don’t have to fight the militants and are able to pull troops out of the troubled areas.
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Civil disobedience is the most potent tool available to a people who believe in a peaceful/non violent struggle against the establishment. The feudal landlords of Punjab,
I know that, but what other group is large enough and spans the country so that the protests can be organized? The problem is very recognizable, but the development of a new group — organization that is independent enough to stand alone won’t happen easily.
The current power brokers
1. Mullahs
2. PML-N Nawaz Sharif
3. PPP – Asif Zardari
4. Feudal landlords
5. Military
squabble enough as it is for the right to control Pakistan. Adding an additional group to that list will be difficult becasue it would lessen the power of the current Establishment.
Pakistan will probably keep drifitng along until it hits the rocks.
eh?
“…a people who believe in a peaceful/non violent struggle against the establishment…”
What people would these be, and where in the Pakistani Tribal regions (FATA) can they be found? Peaceful/non-violent struggle is not exactly a tradition in a region whose long standing motto is “more sons, more guns.”
Look to your Kipling.
PLAINS
BRAINS,
R
What people would these be, and where in the Pakistani Tribal regions (FATA) can they be found? Peaceful/non-violent struggle is not exactly a tradition in a region whose long standing motto is “more sons, more guns.”
Look to your Kipling
Render,
It is safe to say that they are nowhere to be found in the regions that you are talking about (FATA). But I wasn’t talking about them, any ways.
I am talking about the average Pakistani in Lahore or Karachi or Quetta or Islamabad who is fed up with the establishment and wants the country to reform.
Pakistanis are in denial about the creeping TAlibanization of their civil society. They seem to think that it is happening only in “far away” NWFP. But sooner or later they will be forced to confront this problem. The Lal Masjid tragedy happened in the heart of Islamabad – now how did it get to this point ? After all Islamabad is not exactly teeming with Taliban supporters, is it ? and it is far away from the tribal regions too.
The military jihadi complex of Pakistan is turning out to be their Frankenstein. If the establishment has to be countered, the moderate elements of the PPP, PML have to join hands. But in order to get to this point, they have to come out of denial about the Talibanization of the country.
Unfortunately I suspect that just as it was during the bloody days of the Lal Masjid seige, Pakistanis are content to stay on the sidelines and hope that someone/ some thing gets them out of this mess.
And this time, they have no one else to blame.
know that, but what other group is large enough and spans the country so that the protests can be organized? The problem is very recognizable, but the development of a new group — organization that is independent enough to stand alone won’t happen easily.
True that. But just because it is difficult, it does not mean that Pakistani people should give up easily. It is going to be difficult – a lot has happened to bring the country to its present situation. But SOMEONE NEEDS to stand up. I dont know if it will happen.
As an Indian, I hope that they get their act together. Otherwise, India is going to bear the brunt of an even more chaotic Pakistan.
@Indian
India is a country full of insurgency and terrorism. Please focus on your problems and leave Pakistanis alone.
Returning to topic, it seems there is a group in Khyber agency and another one around Peshawar who launch attacks from time to time on NATO terminals. Their impact is minimal and should not be a huge cause of worry.
If NATO/US is not satisfied then they can use some other country to ship their supplies, perhaps Iran or India or China …lol.
Returning to topic, it seems there is a group in Khyber agency and another one around Peshawar who launch attacks from time to time on NATO terminals. Their impact is minimal and should not be a huge cause of worry.
If NATO/US is not satisfied then they can use some other country to ship their supplies, perhaps Iran or India or China …lol.
1. Zardari is going around with the Pakistani Begging Bowl.
2. The central government has lost control in much of FATA and parts of NWFP.
3. Violent attacks are being done by militants in the Punjab.
4. There is a low grade Civil War in Balochistan.
5. There is concern about Taliban increasing their numbers in Karachi (Sindh).
6. There is a dislike of Zardari by many of the citizens and PML-N — Nawaz Sharif would likely win an election if conducted now.
7. Nawaz Sharif has been in power before and didn’t display much in the Leadership area.
8. Nawaz Sharif is much more partial to the religious militants than Zardari, so things would get worse if the PML-N came to power.
9. The Swat agreement has ended up being a farce with Sufi Muhammad pulling one over on a scared government.
10. The Army is scared to fight the militants.
After reviewing all of the above, how somebody from Pakistan is still able to laugh is a mystery to me. If I was from Pakistan, I would be extremely depressed.