Arab News has a report that, if true, is sure to send shockwaves throughout Washington. According to an unconfirmed report at Arab News, Pakistan has deployed anti-aircraft missiles along the border with Afghanistan.
Pakistan has strengthened its air defense with a view to preventing NATO forces from intruding into its territory from Afghanistan.
The strong US ally has installed anti-aircraft missiles in its tribal regions bordering Afghanistan, well-placed sources told Arab News here on Monday.
“Now no helicopter will be able to escape after entering into Pakistani territory,” the official sources said.
Again, this report is unconfirmed. If true, the implications of this action are astounding. It would be difficult to argue against the notion that Pakistan is providing air defense for Taliban and Haqqani Network fighters crossing the border. And given the billions of US military aid given to Pakistan, the US would be funding the effort.
Also see: Pakistan’s leaders okay with unmanned airstrikes — but not manned ones.
Update:
The Arab News report above appears tobe based on this Oct. 3 report at SAMAA, which actually identifies the person quoted:
Pakistan has installed a missile defense system along the Pak-Afghan border to stop cross-border incursions in the country’s tribal areas.
This was revealed by MNA [Member of National Assembly] Munir Orakzai while speaking on SAMAA’s program, ‘Mohaaz’ (to be aired on Saturday morning at 11:30 am).
Orakzai said that additional troops would be deployed to monitor the newly installed defense system.
“Now no helicopter will be able to escape after entering Pakistani territory,” he claimed.
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25 Comments
What the hell do they think they are doing? Are they really going to shoot down ISAF aircraft? I would doubt it, and I doubt that this is true, if so things could escalate very quickly if they actually did open fire on Allied aircraft. I expect it is just more populist slogans that seem to come out of the mouths of these useless politicians who are merely pandering for the peoples support after their outrage over the fact that US Helicopters had entered into Pakistan. I don’t think this will stop us.
What a freaking mess! Our tax dollars are supported the insurgency for far too long. It is time to pull back an funding from this joke of an ally. Ever business knows you have to cut liabilities and its time we dealt with the pakistanis and the threat from Pakistan.
If its true, I would say – ‘really high time!’
No self respecting nation can allow foreign incursions on its soil in this fashion. Drones were bad enough; now its getting to manned aircraft.
Pakistan is losing much more from this war, compared to the aid it is getting from the US. US anyway has no appetite to take on another nation for quite some time to come. Its time Pak called the NATO bluff and told them to ‘buzz’ off (pun intended)
Bill…I’m curious what, if anything, your sources are saying about this. If this is true…not good. If they did deploy these systems it certainly shouldn’t take long for us to sniff them out and confirm it. But what would this do to our drone program? To be sure they wouldn’t be foolish enough to shoot at our drones. But then again you never know about Pak military.
One more time: Pakistan is the ENEMY. No more aid, humanitarian or otherwise should go to Pakistan and their coast should be blockaded.
Once they lock on the helicopters, they can say their prayers.
My guess is that this is for internal consumption. Kayani can’t be this brave or stupid. But if proved right, this means that Afghan-Taliban secret meetings are not in Pakistan’s interest and more shenanigans to come. Very strange…
Best way for US to defang Pakistan, is to take out their nuclear weapons. Then the fun will begin …
The Problem with Afghanistan is Pakistan!
They have always been the enemy from Radical madrasses to more Jihadis per head than any other country in the world!
Iran Govt,Pak Pro Mullah Army and Saudi Religious Authority are our biggest enemy in the WOT.
That was thje case pre 9/11 and still is the case NOW!
Ramgun,
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If its true, I would say – ‘really high time!’
No self respecting nation can allow foreign incursions on its soil in this fashion.
Drones were bad enough; now its getting to manned aircraft.
———————————————–
I think ISAF would be quite happy to have a Sealed Border
between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The only approved crossings would be
at authorized & manned checkpoints for the Supply trucks and similar.
Crossings and movements at other placed on the border would be deemed
foreign incursions and the violators would & should be detained. Those guarding
and protecting the Pakistan border would need to strictly enforce that policy
which could include killing those that resist detention.
It would take a large number of troops to be shifted from the Eastern (Indian) Border
to the Western (Afghanistan) border to enforce the new policy, The Taliban would not
be happy with the Pakistani Army finally standing up for the Honor & Dignity
of Pakistan’s sovereignty after not caring for all of these years.
If you meant that ISAF are the only ones doing foreign incursions on the Afghanistan – Pakistan border, then that means the Taliban that cross back and forth are considered Pakistanis ? How can Pakistan deem it permissible for Pakistanis to cross into
Afghanistan to attack ISAF forces? Does that mean an open declaration of war by Pakistan against
ISAF?
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Pakistan is losing much more from this war, compared to the aid it is getting from the US. US anyway has no appetite to take on another nation for quite some time to come. Its time Pak called the NATO bluff and told them to ‘buzz’ off (pun intended)
———————————————–
This War would be in a much different situation if Pakistan would have went in
and took out the militants in FATA, NWFP and related areas several years ago instead of
making Peace Deals that the Pakistani Army failed to enforce.
a lot of people here are keen to forget that 70% of natos supplies run through Pakistan. And if Pakistan was to close every single border crossing with Afghanistan thus completely cutting off NATO supplies then things wouldnt look too good for the troops out there. And yes there is the argument that America will “invade and kick pakistans backside” as I have heard many on this website say on previous topics, even going to the extent of saying India will invade eastern Pakistan (after being promised the whole of kashmir by the americans) which is quite a possibility did things did start getting rough between Pakistan and America….. But many tend to forget that Pakistan is a nuclear power with ballistic missile capability that can hit every single part of India as well as American troops based in Afghanistan and many other Asian countries with a flurry of nuclear tip missiles. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not dumb enough to not know that Pakistan will be destroyed in a retaliatory response but is America willing to risk such disasterous situations just to follow a few dozen insurgents into Pakistan after they launch an attack that puts a couple of holes into sandbags?
Steve, I think you are exactly correct. I am amazed there aren’t more comments like yours on this site.
I am also curious why relations between India and the US are more public (if the occur at all). It would make sense for the US to arm India with offensive and defensive missiles. And let PAK know.
As far as PAK’s nukes, I doubt they could ever get off the ground. Incompetence by the PAK military would doom their efforts. Their real threat is delivery by dirty bomb.
As far as missiles shooting down US choppers, if true, would allow invasion of N and S Was.
One more reason to put emphasis on the supply route into northern Afghanistan while emphasizing steps to minimize usage, such as solar cells for daytime power and battery charging.
Imagine how the Pakistani truckers would scream at the politicians if the amount of supplies they handled decreased by 50%, and threatens to go lower.
We need to also increase our number of public diplomatic contacts with India while taking an equally public “this is business only” tone with Pakistan until they crack down on the Taliban and al-Qaeda on their side border. We should also quietly make it clear in our Pakistani military contacts that if the civilian government keeps playing these games, that they (Pakistan) will end up totally on their own when dealing with India in the future.
JV perhaps you do not read about the professionalism of the Pakistan Army. Well read on the internet about the nuclear technology and the delivery system of Pakistani nuclear bombs and you will learn that they have have tested and succeeded and have the most modern process in building these bombs based while they have tested the delivery system successfully on all of their ballistic missiles and their planes as well. To your surprise India has old technology in bomb making and their delivery system in most of their ballistic missiles have failed!!
Bard,
I don’t think you (and several other Western observers) have understood the dynamics of this problem.
A disclaimer – I am from India. Rationally speaking, I would be happy to see the Taliban getting hemmed in by NATO and Pak army, to whatever extent they do.
But from a Pak Point of View, this support for NATO makes no sense. They are getting aid, no doubt. But remember that the so-called Pak Taliban itself is a creation of this support for NATO. So is the sectarian strife that is hitting Pak cities hard. So is the looming threat of civil war or Baloch / Pashtun separatism. Too high a price to pay for a few Billion USD of aid.
I suspect Pak offered NATO help in 2001 to help their elite make a quick buck. It was never going to help the country in general. Down the line, things have got far worse than what they planned; but they find it impossible to dig themselves out of this mess.
Taliban may be bad from a NATO viewpoint. But that worked well with the Pak establishment (and indeed the country). The current flux isnt helping them
Steve,
We could easily deal with the Pakistani nuclear arsenal by using a combination of preemptive strikes and our own missile defenses, which can be deployed at the drop of a hat. Their small nuclear arsenal taken out of the picture (at least as an offensive threat), Pakistan would be quickly defeated and dismembered by the United States and India and ideally would be simply partitioned between India and Afghanistan.
One must remember that this isn’t “pursuing a few dozen bad guys over the border” – it’s Pakistan providing open support to Al Qaeda and the Taliban and by doing so making war upon the United States.
I note that we can run the Afghan War quite well using routes that don’t run through Pakistan – the notion that diesel fuel is hard to come by in Central Asia is an economic absurdity. Given that situation I’m betting the Pakistanis essentially bent over for a pro forma apology today (and possibly a meaningless private assurance that we will try to avoid killing any more Frontier Corps troops) and we’ll be seeing a lot more cross-border action in the future… and open border crossings quite quickly.
Umm…
Pakistan deployed SAM missiles into the tribal regions (and Afghanistan) quite some time ago. In the form of Anza MANPADs in Taliban hands.
Unless they are implying one of the larger Chinese or French made systems…
TARGET
PRACTICE,
R
@ratee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
India builds its own missiles. And it has a range of advanced nuclear capable missiles and delivery systems in its arsenal. Some test fail but many others are successful. Your comments are based on pre-independence data, I belive! Besides, begging for ready-made missiles from China and North Korea requires no testing and therefore no failures for the Pak Army.
As for professionalism of Pakistan Army, is you mean professional murderers, than yes! No one can beat them in Genocide!! But call them into the battlefield and they run back with their tail between their legs…Hell, even a neutral observer like me (in Europe) knows what happened in three wars it faught and lost with India!
Seems to me that one part of the Pak military / ISI want to create an incident and are hoping to provoke it. Internal politics and pro-taliban.
Who do you think those folks are anyway at the “protest” against “civilian deaths” from Predators?
Its a game, a deadly game, hoping to cause a bigger rift between Pak and the US.
I wold like to know more details about the “mistake” that killed the border guards – knowing our pilots are very cautious, why did they shoot?
Any bets that the radar systems are never switched “on”?
Pak army want war so they can take over the civil govt and rally the population!
Iran Govt want the same to rally the population!
Ramgun,
———————————————–
I don’t think you (and several other Western observers) have understood the dynamics of this problem.
A disclaimer – I am from India.
———————————————–
I think I understand the dynamics quite well of this problem and the situation in general with Pakistan.
You appear to start the timeline after 9-1-2011 for the issues currently vexing Pakistan while I think it starts much much earlier than that.
Pakistan has had leadership over the decades that has caved in and often catered to the
demands of the most regressive – conservative factions in that country.
Attitudes about Ahmadis
PAKISTAN: The Mad Mullahs (1953)
Why Pakistan’s Ahmadi community is officially detested (2010)
When Pakistan’s main opposition leader Nawaz Sharif used the phrase “our brothers” for the murdered Ahmadis,
leaders from 11 political parties came together to condemn him and threatened to
issue a fatwa declaring him a heretic.
The Skewed Educational System in Pakistan
The subtle Subversion: A report on Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan
The Summary starting on page 9 (PDF) is worth reading if one is unable to read the entire document.
Here is another that has a similar analysis…
Beyond Madrasas
The legal system in Pakistan (1979)
Hudood Ordinance
Though there has been some improvements, there are still injustices against those that aren’t in the majority.
I will expand and document further if needed.
———————————————–
Rationally speaking, I would be happy to see the Taliban getting hemmed
in by NATO and Pak army, to whatever extent they do.
———————————————–
The Pakistani Army hasn’t shown much desire to hem the Taliban in for the past
nine years. I can’t imagine them changing their attitude without massive changes
in their Upper leadership and the installation of officers who have not been
indoctrinated into thinking that India is their core problem.
Pakistani Army officers who think that the Taliban and the religious extremists
are the core problem (rather than India) probably haven’t made it
up very far on the promotion lists.
Thus, they will lack the opportunities to make the needed changes in the approach
and direction for the Pakistani Army in a nearby timeframe.
———————————————–
But from a Pak Point of View, this support for NATO makes no sense.
They are getting aid, no doubt. But remember that the so-called
Pak Taliban itself is a creation of this support for NATO.
So is the sectarian strife that is hitting Pak cities hard.
So is the looming threat of civil war or Baloch / Pashtun separatism.
Too high a price to pay for a few Billion USD of aid.
I suspect Pak offered NATO help in 2001 to help their elite make a quick buck.
It was never going to help the country in general. Down the line, things
have got far worse than what they planned; but they find it impossible
to dig themselves out of this mess.
Taliban may be bad from a NATO viewpoint. But that worked well with the Pak establishment
(and indeed the country). The current flux isnt helping them
———————————————–
Yes, the Pakistani Army had some elements in Afghanistan that
needed to be airlifted out in late 2001.
The Airlfit of Evil (2001)
Mushraff failed to keep his word, yet the Pakistani Army had no problem
taking the funding and military supplies.
I understand the philosophy of Taqiyya
and how it relates to this, but the U.S. was rather clear when discussing things
with Pakistan (after 9-11). Blame the Pakistani leadersip (who are Muslims)
for getting their country and not the U.S.(kafirs).
They are unable to dig themselves out of this mess because of the decades
of making the wrong decisions which I have documented earlier in this response.
Another nice read…
Talibanisation & Musharraf
Haven’t the Pahstuns had a yearning to be reunited with their kin across the Durand Line well before 9-11-2001?
Pashtunistan
Separatist sentiments – movements in Balochistan and the Sindh started well before 9-11-2001.
Separatist movements of Pakistan
We will continue to disagree about this topic.
I’m actually quite surprised that people think America is able to “disarm” Pakistan nukes with “defensive missiles”….. If your talking about nuking pakistan before they nukes us, last time I checked, I’m very sure Obama not so long ago announced that America will never attack first and will
Only retaliate in a nuclear war, that in itself destroys quite a few arguments on this message board.
And to the notion that Pakistan nukes can’t lift off the ground, come on guys, i think we are starting to get a bit overly imaginative here.
Believe me when I say this, if the civilian and military leaders of the US really believed that Pakistan nukes were not a threat, American boots would have been in north waziristan a very long time ago, I can 100% garuntee that, and the war in afghanistan would be over by now
Why do you think we are so hyped up about irans nuclear program? Forget about weaponisation, irans civillian program hasn’t had full lift off (years of delay with bushier plant), and then even after iran enquires the ability to enrich uranium to 95%, they will still need a couple of years to be able to fit the nuke on a delivery system, and then there’s all the nuclear tests in top of that.
Morale of the story……if you have nukes, no one messes with you!!!
Steve – “I’m actually quite surprised that people think America is able to “disarm” Pakistan nukes with “defensive missiles”‘
Render – So am I, surprised that is, I don’t see anybody in this thread mentioning any such thing. I do see Armchair Warlord making a valid point about anti-missile defense systems though, which generally depend on destroying the inbound missiles in flight, rather then “disarming”
From Pakistan. Non muslims can not be friend of a muslim. Allah said that in the Holy Quran and it is true. All of you who have commented here. Try looking to the war prescriptive from another point of view. At every angle you can look because right now you are speaking the thing what is given to you by your government and your media. Thanking You. Usama Khattak.
Does the USA think it can legally cross the border into any country in the world and kill someone without the permission of that country. What do you think Canada and Mexico will have to say about that?
Try it in China or Russia and we will have World War 3.